Denuvo缔造新的加密帝国（我曾经认为这是胡扯）
本帖最后由 motodroid 于 2016-6-11 10:43 编辑原文来自一封Denuvo邮件：
大体内容：
1.Denuvo从第四个版本开始普及（大幅降价），AAA大作10万欧元，AA游戏5万欧元，独立游戏1万欧元以及2500美元安装费用，每份游戏0.15欧元/月（未被破解）的利润分成（他们管这个叫服务费用）
2.第四个版本的Denuvo叫做“死路一条”同时DADC认为没什么可能会被破解，不过他们目前只承诺最多保护游戏一年以内不被破解。
3.加密2-3天就可以加入游戏，同时他们认为这套加密可以提升15%以上的销量。
4.这套加密是索尼研发，他们只是负责安装。
5.他们确实会在每个破解论坛安插眼线，观察破解最新动态。
6.这份邮件好像是一个独立游戏制作商向DADC发的邮件，他们的游戏貌似会在8月份上市。
个人总结：如果以下内容是真的，那么不用明年，很快很快所有游戏就都会是Denuvo加密（可能除了2K，因为他们打算自己做加密）
邮件英文原文：（很长，有兴趣的自己慢慢读）
Hello!
Thanks for reaching out and your interest in our Anti-Tamper solution.
Our core competence are C++ based games, will you upcoming large project (Dead End Road?) be written in Flash too or do you plan to use C++ or Unity?
I’m happy to follow up with more details when this is clarified!
Best regards, Thomas
Thomas Goebl Director Sales & Marketing
Dean Boyle boyleboy02@gmail.com 15:56
Hello Thomas.
Our next release is called Dead End Road, as you guessed, and this larger project is written in C++ language.
Kind regards, Dean
Hi Dean,
Thanks for the quick reply. Great news!
I cover some basic intro below and some questions I usually get when talking about our protection.
Brief intro:
Our mission is Anti-Piracy for PC focusing on games being published on the various game platforms like Steam, Origin, Uplay,...
Although there is news that we might prevent piracy completely going forward, we have a more realistic view: our focus is to help publishers to secure the initial sales windows of their games hence delaying piracy.
Games released with the Steam, etc. DRM / license management are always cracked on day of release, the piracy groups have automatic tools to remove those – this was one of the motivation why we developed our Anti-Tamper solution mainly on request from EA, our first backer for this technology which was released September 2014 – since then many other publishers jumped on board and we see a growing interest based on the recent successes.
During design we had three major points in mind:
Security: Current game platform license management system (e.g. Steam, Origin, Uplay,…) are all compromised, but there is no need for a second DRM (hence extra hurdle for the paying consumer) just a way to protect and strengthen the existing one
Convenience for paying consumers: the paying consumer does not even feel we are there (no extra hurdles, no drop of the in-game framerate,…)
Convenience for developers: the protection is very easy to apply for development studios (we talk 2-3 days work)
What’s our offering:
The services you get along with our Anti-Tamper solution are a long list:
Remote and optional on-site 2-3 days support of Denuvo engineers
Automatic online encryption toolkit (OETK) integration into built process
Anti-Tamper, Anti-Debugging, Anti-Loader technology for the game released on Steam,… (automatically applied by our encryption engine)
Tamper Detection implementation wit工口GAME specific Spotcheck / Trigger system (game play changes for cracked versions)
DeepBinding module including manual revalidation website (Steam Ticket revalidation service)
Manual profiling of the game for performance uncritical functions used for Anti-Tamper protection
Manual testing of the protected game (on all major Windows OS and hardware configuration; performance testing with FPS comparison between protected and unprotected game)
Early Leak Detection (scanning online for piracy releases)
Manual piracy monitoring (piracy forums) with regular updates per mail
Plus you get all security updates over time to be released on future games patches, DLCs,… You can also use the protection on all pre-release builds like betas, preview versions, Early Access, etc. and post-release builds like addons, GOTY, etc.
Integration workflow into a game:
The protection is a post-compiler step and does not need any source code modifications on your end (only three compiler / linker settings must be enabled in VS).
We have an online encryption service which is available as SaaS (hosted in the AWS).
Step 1: Provide us (access to) a (running) build with three compiler / linker settings enabled: /pdb /map /fixed:no; the Steam app ID and Steam private key
Step 2: We create and run our performance profiler and play the game collecting performance uncritical functions
Step 3: We setup the game project on the protection server and send a cmd line tool to the dev team with instructions how to embed it to the build process
Step 4: When running the protection our engine decompiles the exe, parses the collected functions from step 2, injects the security code and recompiles the executable (and creates an updated pdb for debugging)
We usually see this workflow done in 1-2 weeks but suggest to start integrating it 1 month prior goldmaster date to have enough time and focus – also for testing.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Best, Thomas
Hey.
I like the services package. I personally researched Denuvo performances looking throug工口GAME reviews on the Steam Platform (Hitman, Just Cause 3) and I'm quite satisfied. I will proceed sending you a build of our game and what else is required. But before, can I ask you how much all of this will be priced?
Awaiting your answer.
Hi Dean,
Thanks, indeed currently we have quite a run with the protected titles. Just to manage expectations (also for the future), we don’t position our Anti-Tamper as uncrackable, but as hard to crack – the ultimate goal is to prevent a cracked version in the initial sales window. For sure, the longer the protection holds, the better ;-)
When do you plan to release ‘Dead End Road’?
I cover all sizes of titles regarding pricing, please provide your estimate under which category ‘Dead End Road’ will fall.
Pricing:
We offer a wide range of business models to cover different scenarios intended by you as a publisher / developer. I’m also happy to discuss tailoring something reflecting your needs.
Official ordering and invoicing is done by our partner Sony, we do the technical fulfillment.
The standard pricing models:
Lump sum model:
AAA title (bigger 500k units on PC): 100.000 EUR
AA title (smaller 500k units on PC): 50.000 EUR
Indie title (less than 100k units on PC): 10.000 EUR
Or
Per unit pricing:
2.500 EUR setup fee.
0,15 EUR per unit reported monthly based on Steam,… owners.
(optional) cost covering for on-site visit if requested.
Return of investment:
As I often get the question regarding the ROI when using our Anti-Tamper… as every unprotected game is cracked on day of release every day crack free secures additional sales for you, for sure: the longer it’s uncracked, the better.
If you want I can share collected posts of pirates stating that they bought the game as no crack was available (we see this for every game we protect). That’s good feedback and shows that we do something right, but no quantification. Usually it's hard to show hard numbers of additional sales and how long a crack free windows should be ideally to generate additional sales but yearly franchises like FIFA from EA or Football Manager from Sega can be used for comparison.
For Sega’s Football Manager the sales numbers are publically available (approx. numbers from SteamSpy) and you see that Football Manager 2013 (good crack free window of 1 month vs. 0 days on FM 2012 / 2014) sold ways better: Football Manager 2012: 1,173,175 units Football Manager 2013: 1,340,023 units Football Manager 2014: 1,177,011 units
This shows that a 4 week crack free window already gives far ~15% more sales (at full price as this is the initial sales window) in this sample.
The titles protection with Denuvo Anti-Tamper see a crack free window of 1-12 month.
Recently protected games are all uncracked for weeks and months:
FIFA 16 (EA, Origin): uncracked since Sept, 18th
Star Wars (EA, Origin): uncracked since Nov, 17th
Just Cause 3 (Square Enix, Steam): uncracked since Dec, 1st
Rise of the Tomb Raider (Square Enix, Steam & Win10 Store): uncracked since Jan, 28th
Unravel (EA, Origin): uncracked since Feb, 4th
Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare 2 (EA, Origin): uncracked since Feb, 18th
Anno 2205 (Ubisoft, Uplay & Steam): uncracked since Feb, 29th
Far Cry Primal (Ubisoft, Uplay & Steam): uncracked since Mar, 1st
Hitman (Square Enix, Steam): uncracked since Mar, 11th
Need for Speed (EA, Origin): uncracked since Mar, 15th
ADR1FT (505 Games, Steam & Oculus): uncracked since Mar, 28th
EVE: Gunjack (CCP, Steam & Oculus): uncracked since Mar, 28th
The Climb (Crytek, Oculus): uncracked since April, 28th
Doom (Bethesda, Steam): uncracked since May, 13th
Homefront: The Revolution (DeepSilver, Steam): uncracked since May, 17th
Total War: Warhammer (Sega, Steam): uncracked since May, 24th
Mirror's Edge Catalyst (EA, Origin): uncracked since June, 1st
Edge of Nowhere (Insomniac, Oculus): uncracked since June, 6th
And finally it’s a statement that we don’t take it as given that the PC Windows platform is a piracy platform.
Getting started:
The easiest way is to send us some Steam keys and the beta branch information + password.
For the special built executable + map + pdb file with the three compiler settings we can provide you an sftp account or you can upload it to any location:
The three compiler / linker settings:
o /pdb
o /map
o /fixed:no;
Steam info: o Steam AppID
o Steam Private Key - in the Stream back-office go to “Security” -> “SDK Auth” and the key is displayed
Best, Thomas
Dean Boyle boyleboy02@gmail.com 17:24
Hey.
All of this information sounds convincing. Well we are planning to release our Indie game early in August, if everything goes well. Also I have seen you mentioned you gathered messages from pirates stating they bought the game. Can you please share some of those posts here? I'd like to see it with my eyes, this could be the end of piracy if this really happens.
Hi Dean,
Great, just let me know when you are ready to roll, which biz model you want & I’ll setup the paperwork with Sony.
Please find below some recent examples from Doom – posts found in some dark corners of the net like nfohump, cs.rin.ru,… It’s not the end of piracy, but it’s a good sign… ;-)
Here is a screen with the posts he sent me: http://imgur.com/uw4xod3
Yeah it's a lot of text, but it has all the information you guys need.
From the looks of it, they really are monitoring Crackstatus, cs.rin and other websites where pirates discuss. And omfg, 100k euros for protecting an AAA Game ?!!?!
Thanks for being good pirates ;) Dont let Denuvo win.
Edit: I did not take pics and post them here cause it would be too much of a headache since not even a single email fits a screenshot. So I just copy pasted while separating my emails and his emails
Here's a pic with the fake email account so no one says this thing isnt legit: http://imgur.com/R10WeHu 未来趋势。。现在更喜欢一些独立游戏 入正吧 哈哈哈哈 已经超过半年多木有玩新的单机游戏了，养成习惯了，挺好。。。:P 如果是真的，开发一个游戏百万千万很正常，这点加密钱根本不算什么 感觉3DM，游侠再不转型，倒闭也是迟早的事了 wjw14201 发表于 2016-6-11 11:49
感觉3DM，游侠再不转型，倒闭也是迟早的事了
其实08年开始DADC的SecuRom也用于大批游戏上，和现在很像。不过区别是，一个相对被破解的较快，而且影响游戏体验。另一个Denuvo到现在没能完全破解，而且除了读盘时间和对磁盘的反复读写以外基本不太影响游戏。
其实现在还是有一群破解组的人在破解，只是目前破解进度缓慢，大部分都是PASSED（绕过Denuvo)的方式。比如说FIFA 16和DOOM 4 估计第四个版本的Denuvo就是针对这种绕过方式的。
转型这种事情是迟早的，但是目前国内没合理审批分级和进口的制度，一旦上面要治理，会死的更惨。
motodroid 发表于 2016-6-11 12:01
其实08年开始DADC的SecuRom也用于大批游戏上，和现在很像。不过区别是，一个相对被破解的较快，而且影响 ...
读写磁盘一事已辟谣。
本帖最后由 motodroid 于 2016-6-11 12:24 编辑
cjpdzxx60 发表于 2016-6-11 12:18
读写磁盘一事已辟谣。
我说的是反复读写，不是对磁盘损伤这点有人已经验证过了，使用Denuvo游戏会频繁大量的读写，大概每小时要读写十几个GB。
加密不怕 就怕加密游戏是冷饭 到最后搞不好没人买 只有大厂家才会有这种气魄的 秒破是一个时代，然而这个时代一去不复返了，默哀。。。 motodroid 发表于 2016-6-11 12:23
我说的是反复读写，不是对磁盘损伤这点有人已经验证过了，使用Denuvo游戏会频繁大量的读写，大概每小时要 ...
反复读写也辟谣了。
本帖最后由 motodroid 于 2016-6-11 12:51 编辑
cjpdzxx60 发表于 2016-6-11 12:44
反复读写也辟谣了。
那我建议你看一下Denuvo的加密方式，不通过反复读写是无法检验自身是否被破解的。
https://www.reddit.com/r/CrackSt ... n_about_how_denuvo/
https://www.reddit.com/r/CrackStatus/comments/4cs2q0/progress_on_cracking_denuvo/
motodroid 发表于 2016-6-11 12:48
那我建议你看一下Denuvo的加密方式，不通过反复读写是无法检验自身是否被破解的。
https://www.reddit.com ...
这个链接的内容你自己都没看吧。;P
本帖最后由 motodroid 于 2016-6-11 13:09 编辑
cjpdzxx60 发表于 2016-6-11 13:02
这个链接的内容你自己都没看吧。
之前我在杀手6区发的这些内容，你猜我看没看。http://att.3dmgame.com/att/forum/201511/05/054158ee6ee8ce8xky56yx.png
第一个链接没提，但是第二个链接提到了需要通过反复验证来知道是否被破解。
发2个帖子只是因为我想让你了解的更全面一些。
cjpdzxx60 发表于 2016-6-11 13:02
这个链接的内容你自己都没看吧。
同时这里面还提到了Denuvo是像VM3.0一样通过虚拟机来保护加密代码，也就说在你运行游戏的时候除了反复读写以外，还要额外消耗性能去运行虚拟机里的加密代码之类的东西。
他们确实会在每个破解论坛安插眼线，观察破解最新动态。
有点意思！我现在不再期待破解游戏，而是期待把那个眼线揪出来游街！{:3_161:}{:3_161:}{:3_161:}
motodroid 发表于 2016-6-11 13:12
同时这里面还提到了Denuvo是像VM3.0一样通过虚拟机来保护加密代码，也就说在你运行游戏的时候除了反复读写 ...
反正讲道理，不依靠硬盘读写和CPU运算就能达到Denuvo那样强度的加密，我是不相信它存在的。
但事实是D加密的游戏有渣优化也有良心优化（同时非D加密也是两者都有），其原理到底是什么样只有内部员工知道了。
motodroid 发表于 2016-6-11 13:04
之前我在杀手6区发的这些内容，你猜我看没看。
第一个链接没提，但是第二个链接提到了需要通过反复验证来 ...
你没看懂跟没看其实是一样的；
反复验证，这个工作量达到什么程度，和游戏本身对硬盘数据的读取量对比是什么结果，是否占到一个不可忽略的比例，这些都有人测试过吗？
现在这些满论坛流传的说法其实包含很多文字游戏，而关键的、可以作为证据的数据却没有。
cjpdzxx60 发表于 2016-6-11 13:28
你没看懂跟没看其实是一样的；
反复验证，这个工作量达到什么程度，和游戏本身对硬盘数据的读取量对比是 ...
你这话真的挺好笑的。我从来没说Denuvo会怎么样怎么样，而你极力的想证明Denuvo无害，至于有害无害要时间去证明。之前那个毁硬盘的加密也不是刚用就给毁了阿。
破解组研究加密以后提供的信息就是为了防止破解反复读写，有人测试称是十几个GB每小时，你说不是，你也不拿证据。破解组说Denuvo像是VM Protect 3.0，VM Protect 3.0就会建立虚拟机验证，一定是会影响性能的。至于所有数据不知道，是因为Denuvo不敢公开数据，怕被彻底破解。所以你洗白是没意义的，Denuvo没胆子公开数据，所以我们只能相信破解组通过公开的内容。
如果所有加密游戏都有中文的话那可以:lol motodroid 发表于 2016-6-11 13:36
你这话真的挺好笑的。我从来没说Denuvo会怎么样怎么样，而你极力的想证明Denuvo无害，至于有害无害要时间 ...
你从没说过Denuvo怎么样？
这是从8楼摘录的：“而且除了读盘时间和对磁盘的反复读写以外基本不太影响游戏。”
你这句话已经表明你认为读盘对游戏有明显影响了。（你说的是“不太”）
毁硬盘的加密是哪个？请说出名字来。
”十几个GB每小时“ 我从没说过不是，你不要臆想。相反我倒很有兴趣看看测试贴原文。
另外有一点你要弄清楚，如果你说读取量大到明显影响游戏，那么要由你来提供数据，而不是要求denuvo自己公开。谁主张，谁举证，这是常识。
我只是反对在证据不足的情况下妄加指责，这不叫洗白。
直接设计一个软件，屏蔽Denuvo加密，或者直接把它从游戏中移除，这方面找突破口 cjpdzxx60 发表于 2016-6-11 13:59
你从没说过Denuvo怎么样？
这是从8楼摘录的：“而且除了读盘时间和对磁盘的反复读写以外基本不太影响游戏 ...
我擦 又一个来月经的，你们这些人就是阴魂不散！
暗星座 发表于 2016-6-11 14:09
我擦 又一个来月经的，你们这些人就是阴魂不散！
我估计他是DADC在3DM的眼线级别的人物，要不然那么急于洗白Denuvo？http://att.3dmgame.com/att/forum/201511/05/054158ee6ee8ce8xky56yx.png
motodroid 发表于 2016-6-11 14:26
我估计他是DADC在3DM的眼线级别的人物，要不然那么急于洗白Denuvo？
我正想他是不是眼线呢！ cjpdzxx60 发表于 2016-6-11 13:59
你从没说过Denuvo怎么样？
这是从8楼摘录的：“而且除了读盘时间和对磁盘的反复读写以外基本不太影响游戏 ...
我就问你一句话，你从实招来：你到底是不是派来的眼线？ motodroid 发表于 2016-6-11 14:26
我估计他是DADC在3DM的眼线级别的人物，要不然那么急于洗白Denuvo？
你这是不敢正面回答我了。。。。:lol
ggxxdak 发表于 2016-6-11 14:32
我就问你一句话，你从实招来：你到底是不是派来的眼线？
你还真信了，你这人太搞笑了。。。。